cam timing

After installing an electronic ignition on my bike (78 KZ1000 LTD with 75 Z1 900 motor, Dana coils, Kerker header with stock carbs jetted ) I can get the bike running but the timming marks will not line up. At 1000 rpm the marks show up under a timming light fully advanced. I pulled the cams and reset the cam timing as per the shop manual to no avail, still have the same issues. Help as I would really like to give my other bike a rest from daily rider ( to save on tire wear, the ZRX eats rear tires up in the middle when riding to and from work.)

What kind of electronic ignition did you install?

I have a Dyna S ignition on my KZ900. The plate which the pickup coils are mounted on can be rotated to adjust the timing. If your cam timing is correct you should be able to loosen the screws on the plate, rotate the plate to line up the timing marks. On the Dyna S also the pickup coils can be individually adjusted slightly if one side is off.

I'm at a loss here, what does the cam timing have to do with the ignition timing? AFAIK, the ignition is timed off the crank, and driven by the crank, so cam timing does not matter (as far as the ignition is concerned).

I suggest removing all the spark plugs, stick a straw down through the spark plug hole on number 1 or 4 cylinder, and turn the motor by hand until you have the piston at TDC. Then look at the timing advancer and see where it is in relation to the pointer. If the T mark is lined up with the pointer, then you need to rotate the plate that the pick ups are mounted on to time it.

Good call, Steell.

Thanks to all, I will give the items a try.

Make sure the ignition advance unit is working. If you try and move the crank timing rotor it should move freely 20 degrees and spring back. If it doesn't, you will need to pull the advancer apart to clean and lube it.

On some engines, it is difficult to rotate the ignition backplates enough to get the marks lined up - usually getting it close, then making minor adjustments to the individual pickups to get the makes right on.

The Dyna S is a very nice piece. No KZ should still be using points. However, how many of you are aware that Dyna has made a Dyna 2000 for the KZ?

kzzone.com/igpage2.html

Jay

I must have a bd module on the electrionic ignition, nothing worked. I put the points back on and now it runs fine. Is there any way to check the modules on a dyna s ignition?

Wait a minute: does it get spark from both coils with the Dyna? If so, there's nothing wrong with the pickups ("modules" almost seems pretensious for such a simple ignition). All those things do is open and close a circuit as the magnet spins past. Timing is controlled entirely by the position of the pickups (are they perhaps hooked-up backward?) and the mechanical advancer, which should be fine if it's fine with points.

BTW, Jay, if I ever get the Z1 put together, I'll know what to think of the 2000. That's one part I have already, while I save-up money for others (don't ask how I decide what to buy first). Who talked you into joining-up here anyway? Glad to see it at any rate. I've been reading your excellent advice on dragbike for a while.

This came from Murphyau's old site maybe?

KZ650 / Z650
DYNA S IGNITION SYSTEM TESTING

INSPECTION
Check that the rotor is not rubbing the modules or the wiring. Turn the rotor to the advanced position and release. It should snap back crisply. Check when motor is cold and again when hut. Make a timing mark on the case and Dyna S plate. Remove the Dyna S and check that the advancer is not rubbing the plate.

Inspect the cable for burned or pinched sections. Firmly pull on all splices and crimp terminals. Check that coil connections are tight and clean. Install split look washers on screws.

Remove spurt plug wires and inspect for corroded terminals and cracked insulation. Connect an ohmmeter to each end and gently pull and twist the wire to check for breaks. Check the spark plugs. Replace if excessively fouled - do not clean.

VOLTAGE TEST
First check the primary resistance of the ignition coils. They should be at least 3 ohms (remember to subtract the resistance of the meter leads). Replace coils that read an open or shorted primary before proceeding.

Rotate the motor so that the magnet in the rotor is pointing away from the modules. Turn on the ignition and measure the voltage between ground and coil (+). A reading of about 1 volt less than battery voltage is normal due to resistance in the wiring.

If the voltage is much lower’, check for voltage drops across any switches, splices, connectors, circuit breakers, etc, that feed power to the coils. Do not leave the ignition on for more than about 5 minutes when doing this test as the coils may overheat and become damaged.

Measure the voltage between each coil (-) terminal and ground. This should measure in the range of 0.8 to 1.4 volts when the magnet is pointed away from the modules.

Rotate the motor until the magnet points at the sensor (the sensors located behind the raised rib on the face of the module). The voltage should go up to approx. the battery voltage. This indicates the module is switching on and off and is probably OK.

If the voltage stays low, check that the gap between the rotor and sensor is in the range of 0.025� to 0.040�. Gaps larger than 0.040� may cause the module not to switch. The voltage will also stay low if the output is shorted.

If the voltage stays high all the time, check that the mounting plate has a solid ground and that there is power going to the modules. If this is OK, then the module may be bad.

OHMMETER TEST
Disconnect to Dyna S wires from the coils. Connect the negative ohmmeter lead to the mounting plate and the positive lead to one of the coil negative ( - ) wires. This should read open (infinite ohms) on all ranges. Any other reading indicates damaged output. If the meter has diode test, the leads can be reversed and a diode drop of 0.5 to 0.6 volts will be read.

Note: Many low cost ohmmeters reverse the polarity of the leads inside the meter. This will cause false bad readings due to the resistance of the reverse diode described above.

Do not attempt to ohm between any other points, or with power applied to the module. Due to component tolerances, differences in meters. etc., these readings will vary greatly and are not reliable measurement.

COIL TEST
Remove all wire from the coils. Measure the primary resistance between tire screw terminals. Measure the secondary resistance between the high voltage outputs. For single output coils measure the resistance between the high voltage output and either one of the screw terminals.

Accurate measurement of the primary resistance requires a good quality ohmmeter with a low ohms range. Readings will vary slightly from those listed below depending on the quality of the meter and the resistance of the meter leads. Damaged coils will typically have significantly different readings - open or shorted on the primary or secondary.

PRIMARY SECONDARY
RESISTANCE RESISTANCE
DC1-1 2.9- 3.2 ohms 13.5K - 14.5K
DC3-1 2.9- 3.2 ohms 13.5K - 14.5K
DC6-1 3.2-3.7 ohms 11.0K - 12.0K
DC7-1 4.8-5.2 ohms 17.0K - 18.0K
DC8-1 4.8-5.2 ohms 17.0K - 18.0K
DC10-1 4.8-5.2 ohms 13.5K - 14.5K


REPAIR
The Dyna S ignition is not user serviceable and must be returned to the factory for repair. Do not cut off the cable, remove the modules, or attempt to service as this may substantially increase the repair cost and / or void the warranty.

Whoa! Cam timing is cam timing. This can only be set one way... Different subject.

As far as not being able to time the Dyna S... I have heard several mention rotating the igntion plate.
WHOA! FOLKS...

Many times, a Dyna S is slapped together where the 1/4 pickup coil is at one end or the other of its possible mount position. You can rotate the plate behind the coils as much as you want and may still not be able to get the 1/4 timed. I suggest you relocate the 1/4 pickup coil via loosening of the two mount bolts (socket head) to the center of adjustment area and tightening the pickup coil mount bolts and THEN try and rotate the plate. This is the way you adjust timing for 2/3 so it should be familiar to most who have installed these things.

This happened to me when I bought my last Dyna S and passed this "tech tip" on to the fella who sold it to me hehe (remember Jeff?)...

Ok, The cam timing is correct, I have the points on and the bike is running and in time. Apperently , I have other issues as it will not run smooth in gear, and will not pull past 4k rpm. I will try resetting the dyna ignition and try it again. I am also going to try new plugs and check the coils and plug wires. After that, I am going to go thru the carbs and make sure that gas is flowing correctly and the gas tank and petcock. Any other ideas to look at or try?