KZR's Bikes of the Month for 2024

GPZ1100 Fuel tank - Fuel transfer from unused tank side

  • Bozo
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17 Dec 2024 16:07 - 17 Dec 2024 16:18 #906948 by Bozo
 My GPZ1100B1 fuel tank has a Pingal   tap on the LHS, the problem is that my bike starts to surge when the fuel level drops to around 75% because the fuel on the RHS can't transfer over.
There is a spigot on the bottom of the fuel tank on the RHS but I don't know what this is for. If it is for the fuel transfer how is it used so the fuel still goes through the tap??. Any ideas would be appreciated.

First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Last edit: 17 Dec 2024 16:18 by Bozo.

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17 Dec 2024 18:50 #906950 by Nerdy
Use short pieces of fuel line to connect the LHS and RHS spigots to the L/R sides of a tee fitting. The tee should be free-flowing in all directions.

Use another piece of fuel line to connect the third part of the tee to the Pingel. Done.

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  • howardhb
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17 Dec 2024 21:37 - 17 Dec 2024 22:39 #906954 by howardhb
The B1 tank isn't "divided" left/right. (well, mine wasn't)
I know this because I modified my B1 tank to accept a standard Kawa vacuum petcock.

 

 

 

The second spigot is for the "excess" fuel to return from the electric DFI fuel pump. 
You can attach your Pingel petcock to either side.

Something else is causing the problem that you are experiencing.
Perhaps the tiny breather hole in the gas cap is blocked?

H.

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Last edit: 17 Dec 2024 22:39 by howardhb.

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  • Bozo
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18 Dec 2024 01:44 - 18 Dec 2024 01:49 #906958 by Bozo
Thankyou both for replying. You gave me something to think about.
You are correct the RHS spigot most likely is the injection return.
The fuel cap I checked by opening it up when I felt the surge, so that's not the problem.
I'm starting the think my carbies need more fuel tank pressure to activate the needles (I'm running ZRX1100 CV carbies), it appears my idea of fuel staying on the RHS was NOT correct.

Come to think of it my other bike the FJ1200, I took off the fuel pump changed to the smaller seats (fuel pump requires larger inlet seats) thinking the pump is not required and I had the same problem so I went back to the fuel pump.

If it comes to the crunch I'll fit a fuel pump, although I'm not sure what pressure would be required - any ideas????

First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Last edit: 18 Dec 2024 01:49 by Bozo.

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18 Dec 2024 02:11 #906959 by Wookie58
Fuel pressure with carbs needs to be low so it doesn't overpower the floats, an adjustable regulator would allow you to dial it up until it floods then back it off again. However to be honest it shouldn't need a pump (does the ZRX that donated the carbs use a pump ?)

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  • Bozo
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18 Dec 2024 03:34 #906960 by Bozo
I had a ZRX1100 and I'm certain it doesn't have a fuel pump, The tank is about the same size etc. 
I'll have to do more homework on this, thankyou for your input

First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
The following user(s) said Thank You: Wookie58

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18 Dec 2024 05:10 #906961 by asphalt900
Just some considerations Bozo. Yes as mentioned, correct cap ventilation of course. When You say surge, under what conditions? Is it at an even slight throttle, like going on fairly flat terrain and feels like it is "hunting"? Or WOT and missing out and stumbling? You mentioned something about those Float needle seats or You call them Inlet seats. Actually introduction of a fuel pump will require Smaller inlet seats, not bigger. And you'll find changing those seats doubtfully would be required. And if so, gotta know how to do it, they are pressed-in on those CVK Keihin's. And no replacements that i'm aware of off the shelf. I pull them to get behind and remove crud but a special technique is used. A couple versions shown, note length differences.    
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  • Bozo
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20 Dec 2024 20:48 #907036 by Bozo
Opps that's what happens when I sniff cheap fly spray, you are correct smaller inlet seats for fuel pump. I just checked, unlike some carbies the ZRX seats don't appear to come out nicely. 

Reference to "surge" it feels exactly like its running out of fuel with 25% of fuel left in the tank. I'm running out of ideas. I initially thought it was the tank design but that was not the problem.

First I'll take the tank off and make sure the fuel drains fully through the petcock. Once this has been done I can look at the carbies. I'll keep you posted.

Thankyou for your help

 

First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)

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  • Bozo
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Yesterday 18:13 - Yesterday 18:15 #907079 by Bozo
Again, thankyou to all that helped. It was my fuel cap after all. I was amazed at how good the pingel tap was, it basically pored the fuel out. 
I filled up the tank (to check capacity of the tank - Fuel just touching the neck = 20,75ltrs / 30 C. The fuel started to surge around 14 ltrs and at times it stopped until it gasped for air, finally draining fully (with the fuel cap open). While empty I checked to ensure the tap screen is clean.
The cap I have is a knock-off, the seals/ orings were a bit too tight so I changed the suspect for a thinner one and the surge appears to subside until empty with the cap down. CROSS fingers.

Merry xmas and Seasons greetings to all

First Permanent ride the Z1R since Dec1977 (220,000km) as of June 2015
Second permanent bike 1989 FJ1200 dyno'd 140RWH, great bike.
Third ride is now the Frankenstein 1981 GPZ1100B1, 1983 fully recon motor fitted LOVE THIS BIKE
Forth my work bike FJ1200 1989 (same type as FJ above)
Last edit: Yesterday 18:15 by Bozo. Reason: adding to topic
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