shock poll

Hi folks.. getting to shocks on the KZ1100 LTD. Going to ride mostly one up (260 lbs) with some gear this year. Found about a $45 differece between new Progressive 416 air shocks and the 12 series with appropriate springs.

I'd anticipate air as cushier and adjustable but spring as a sportier ride. Frankly thinking if I go air an don't like it resale would be better on the 416 than the 12.

Quick poll: what's your preference, air or spring for this size bike?

KZ 1000 CSR -one up mostly-185 pounds-Hagon shocks spring only no air.They can spring it any way u want it.bj

I'm running the progressives from Z1E with the 105/150 springs and am pleased with the ride from them.

Air shocks?

Ever have air shocks on a car?
Ever cut the air line for those air shocks?
Do your self a favor and use hyd. shocks with a spring.
Springs are adjustable, preload can be added for heavier loads.
Air gets very stiff when compessed.

Nebr_Rex wrote: Air shocks?

Ever have air shocks on a car?
Ever cut the air line for those air shocks?
Do your self a favor and use hyd. shocks with a spring.
Springs are adjustable, preload can be added for heavier loads.
Air gets very stiff when compessed.

Um, air shocks "are" hydraulic shocks, they just have a sealed chamber that can be pressurized.
When air shocks lose their air pressure they just become ordinary hydraulic shocks.

As far as air getting very stiff when compressed, so does most everything else

Air will give you a lot softer stop when bottoming a fork than a coil bound spring will.

"Springs are adjustable, preload can be added for heavier loads."

Um, no, preload simply adjusts ride height (or sag). If you're a 250 lb guy and you buy a bike sprung for a 150 lb guy, you best be replacing the springs.

steell wrote:

Nebr_Rex wrote: Air shocks?

Ever have air shocks on a car?
Ever cut the air line for those air shocks?
Do your self a favor and use hyd. shocks with a spring.
Springs are adjustable, preload can be added for heavier loads.
Air gets very stiff when compessed.

Um, air shocks "are" hydraulic shocks, they just have a sealed chamber that can be pressurized.
When air shocks lose their air pressure they just become ordinary hydraulic shocks.

As far as air getting very stiff when compressed, so does most everything else

Air will give you a lot softer stop when bottoming a fork than a coil bound spring will.
(((How about on a shock where the shaft bottoms out before the spring?)))

"Springs are adjustable, preload can be added for heavier loads."

Um, no, preload simply adjusts ride height (or sag). If you're a 250 lb guy and you buy a bike sprung for a 150 lb guy, you best be replacing the springs.
(((Um yes, it's done in racing all the time.)))

I will have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

"Um, air shocks "are" hydraulic shocks, they just have a sealed chamber that can be pressurized.
When air shocks lose their air pressure they just become ordinary hydraulic shocks."

There's truth in this, but motorcycles with ordinary hydraulic shocks have springs to keep the bike up. On air shocks that have no springs the air is intended to serve as the "springs." If they lose their air pressure, the air shocks will collapse to their compressed position and there will be nothing to lift the bike up to its normal ride height. I'm no lover or hater of air shocks, and I've never used them on a bike. I suspect they work fine and are designed not to leak the air just as regular shocks are designed not to leak the hydraulic fluid. I use Hagons and have used S&W shocks in the past; these are both outstanding shocks though the S&W's are no longer available (maybe bought out by Progressive?). The only poor shocks I've used were those that were original equipment on the bikes I've owned. Ed

"pre-load adj. ride height and sag." quoted Steel

not exactly. setting static and rider sag is first accomplished with correct value springs for the weight of the bike (static)or a fully kitted rider (rider sag)then tweaked with pre-load to a certain extent for rider preferred feel while only using up a certain amount of spring doing so.

Ride height is a totally diff exercise adj. via shock or chassis linkage ala Ducati and or adjustability ala top shelf Ohlins for ex. The front end is adj. by sliding the tubes up or down to accomplish a desired front end height.

your basic info is sound but pre-load has nothing to do with ride height. ride height is a chassis/geometry adjustment not a suspension adj. this fact is one often assumed or confusing to folks and it makes suspension guys twitch.

Dang, see what I get for reading Tony Foale and Kevin Cameron? I really ought to know better than to trust anything they say.

But for anyone reading who is not the worlds foremost suspension expert, and would like to learn about setting up their suspension, I suggest Kevin Cameron's book "Sportbike Performance", and especially chapter 13, "Suspension Tuning".

pre-load adj. ride height and sag." quoted Steel

not exactly. setting static and rider sag is first accomplished with correct value springs for the weight of the bike (static)or a fully kitted rider (rider sag)then tweaked with pre-load to a certain extent for rider preferred feel while only using up a certain amount of spring doing so.

Read above, if you don't see your mistake then I suggest a bit more studying is in order.

your basic info is sound but pre-load has nothing to do with ride height. ride height is a chassis/geometry adjustment not a suspension adj. this fact is one often assumed or confusing to folks and it makes suspension guys twitch.

Argue with Kevin Cameron, I just double checked "Sportbike Performance" chapter 13, and Kevin Cameron says I'm correct. Is that good enough, or do I have to dig out Phil Irving?

I will have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

No problem, you have every right to be wrong :laugh:

I will have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

No problem, you have every right to be wrong :laugh:

And so do you.:whistle:

Wow! I've seen oil wars, tire wars, pod/air box wars, gasoline wars... but this is a first! :lol:

Not joining in this one, nope... not gonna, just going to say to the OP, get a set of progressives and be happy!

Nebr_Rex wrote:

I will have to disagree with you on those 2 points.

No problem, you have every right to be wrong :laugh:

And so do you.:whistle:

Yeah, but you see I can site my sources, the best known suspension and frame experts in the world (Tony Foale being in the UK and Kevin Camaron in the US), so it's them you're saying are wrong.
Are you really sure you want to proclaim yourself the worlds foremost expert on motorcycle suspension?

Or is it maybe possible you mis-heard something somewhere and are now staking everything on it?

(((How about on a shock where the shaft bottoms out before the spring?)))

Do you really expect me to address every possible type of shock absorber, or you just wanting to argue? How about friction shocks? Or maybe magnetic shocks? Or even within hydraulic shocks you have fixed orifice versus variable orifice, and several types of that.


KZ_Rage, can't argue with the Progressives, although some people might, I have Progressive fork springs on my daily rider 750 twin and on my ZX11, Racetech Gold Valve emulators and linear springs in GSX750 forks on my 750 twin project. Progressive may not be great on the track, but I love them for every day street use. The Gold Valve emulators are pretty cool also, I am rebuilding my spare ZX11 shock with the Gold Valve emulator and a Racetech straight weight spring.