Swingarm pinch bolt

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18 Mar 2014 10:54 #625655 by kaw-a-holic
Swingarm pinch bolt was created by kaw-a-holic
So I was talking to a shop today about TIGing in my frame brace kit. First thing he mentioned is that 14 pieces is excessive.
He did mention that welding in a swingarm pivot pinch bolt is advised? WTF is that and what does it do? This is motorcycle shop that does kaw work and he states he has welded a lot of older kawi race frames.

Jon
1977 KZ1000a1
Mesa, AZ
Phoenix Fighter Project

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18 Mar 2014 11:03 #625657 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
I've never heard of that, and I've never seen one welded even on a KZ1000-S1. If that was a common practice or was necessary, I would expect the S1 race bikes to have it done. I wouldn't do it as I have never heard of a Kawasaki swing arm pivot bolt losing the locknut, but maybe some other members have a different experience. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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18 Mar 2014 11:36 #625660 by spdygon
Replied by spdygon on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
Well I can tell u that my brother never brace his drag bike frames. I did not know that people were even doing this till I join KZRider. I remember helping pulling the motors out and the mounts would always line up when reinstalling them.
Not saying it is not needed .....frame will flex under extreme load but if the bike is not meet for the sole purpose of drag or road racing I would not bother.

1982 GS1000sz Katana ( #15...17K Miles)
1982 GS1000sz Katana ( # 297....7100k Miles)
1978 Kz1000 Z1R. 10K Miles1
1978 kz1000 z1r 27k miles
1977 KZ 1000 A ( Project ) 54K Miles
1976 Kz900A4 (Red)21K miles
1976 Kz900A4 ( Red)7500 miles
1974 Z1 900 project

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18 Mar 2014 14:39 #625674 by kaw-a-holic
Replied by kaw-a-holic on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
for drag racing may not be necessary. For corners it is needed.

Jon
1977 KZ1000a1
Mesa, AZ
Phoenix Fighter Project
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18 Mar 2014 14:51 #625679 by slayer61
Replied by slayer61 on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
Is this what you mean, when you say swing arm pinch bolt? Like those used on swing arms with eccentric adjusters???


Don't be ridiculous! It's only a flesh wound!

[strike]Wife's little bike... 1984 GPZ 550 Kerker and DynaJet stage I kit[/strike]
Wife's BIG bike......[strike] 1981 GPZ 1100 Kerker and [strike]factory FI[/strike] Mikuni RS34s W/ K&N pods[/strike] SOLD

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18 Mar 2014 16:31 #625691 by z1kzonly
Replied by z1kzonly on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
I don't know your plans? But research the old Sandy Kosman frame kit for bracing.
Welding the swingarm pivot is for drag racing only! "Puppet" the infamous dragrace chassis builder said that, "of course" you have to weld everything together. These frames flex so much! Thats for high end street or drag racing!
Any road driving you need a good Suzuki GS 1100 aluminum with good bearings

Livin in "CheektaVegas, NY
Went thru 25 of these in 40 yrs.
I SOLD OUT! THE KAW BARN IS EMPTY.
More room for The Old Girl, Harley 75 FLH Electra Glide,
Old faithful! Points ign. Bendix Orig. carb.
Starts everytime!

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18 Mar 2014 17:15 #625695 by kaw-a-holic
Replied by kaw-a-holic on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
Maybe he was thinking drag racing I can see that. I think I need to shop around for a different guy to weld in the kit. He shot me a ballpark figure of $400 to weld in a frame kit and thats with the frame stripped and ready to go.. That sounded a b it high to me. I don't want a crap job but $100/hour?

Jon
1977 KZ1000a1
Mesa, AZ
Phoenix Fighter Project

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19 Mar 2014 02:49 #625722 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
Can't see how you can fit a pinch bolt to the existing frame pivot without welding on an extended piece and using a longer spindle.
Never seen it done and it isn't needed.
Also 14 brace inserts isn't excessive if you are really going to push the bike ( just look at the extent of bracing on the Ac sanctuary race bikes )
I have 25 braced sections on my latest twin shock Moriwaki superbike build ( soon to be posted on projects ;) ) and it does make a very noticeable difference ,even in normal road riding.
Fitting modern stiffer swingers and forks transfer more flex into the frame which needs addressing to make the mods more than just cosmetic.
If you can't get a straight answer from your welder/mechanic then go elsewhere.

AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-





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19 Mar 2014 07:29 #625748 by kaw-a-holic
Replied by kaw-a-holic on topic Swingarm pinch bolt

zed1015 wrote: Can't see how you can fit a pinch bolt to the existing frame pivot without welding on an extended piece and using a longer spindle.
Never seen it done and it isn't needed.
Also 14 brace inserts isn't excessive if you are really going to push the bike ( just look at the extent of bracing on the Ac sanctuary race bikes )
I have 25 braced sections on my latest twin shock Moriwaki superbike build ( soon to be posted on projects ;) ) and it does make a very noticeable difference ,even in normal road riding.
Fitting modern stiffer swingers and forks transfer more flex into the frame which needs addressing to make the mods more than just cosmetic.
If you can't get a straight answer from your welder/mechanic then go elsewhere.


I completely agree

I

Jon
1977 KZ1000a1
Mesa, AZ
Phoenix Fighter Project

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19 Mar 2014 11:09 - 19 Mar 2014 15:25 #625768 by Dr. Gamma
Replied by Dr. Gamma on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
One thing that is a joke on all the Kz900/1000 frames is the sloppy fit of the swing arm pivot bolt to the frame. Slide your swing arm bolt into the frame and see how much play there is. It is a joke. Its about .010ths to .030ths clearance. If you would have looked at all the factory Kz1000 Superbikes (even the S1's) that Mr. Muzzy built, they all had oversize swing arm bolts. I would check out every inch of the factory bikes for hours looking at every little piece they changed or made up.

I picked up that trick back in 1978 on the DesRoche built Vetter Superbikes. Any machine shop can make you a few. I used a adjustable ream to enlarge the pivot holes in the frame so the swing arm bolt had a super tight fit to the frame. Then had my machine shop hone the I.D. of the inner swing arm sleeve so the oversize swing arm bolt had zero clearance between the two. If you have .020ths play at the pivot bolt, just think how much movement there is at the end of the swing arm where your rear axle is.

Even on my S1 I went to a oversize swing arm bolt. When I first got my S1 it wobbled pretty bad. I was really disappointed in its handling compared to my homebuilt KZ1000 Superbike. There was a noticeable improvement in the handling of the S1 with just installing the oversize swing arm bolt. No more hinge in the middle feeling around fast sweepers!!!

Now a braced frame, a nice braced swing arm, beefier triple trees, good forks, and rear shocks, and a oversize swing arm bolt, your Kz frame should go around corners pretty good.

1972 H2 750 Cafe Racer built in 1974.
1976 KH400 Production Road Racer.
1979 Kz1000 MK. II Old AMA/WERA Superbike.
1986 RG500G 2 stroke terror.
1986 GSXR750RG The one with the clutch that rattles!

Up in the hills near Prescott, Az.
Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 15:25 by Dr. Gamma. Reason: left out word in sentence
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19 Mar 2014 11:36 #625772 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic Swingarm pinch bolt
Good point on the swing arm pivot.
The same treatment with the engine mount bolts helps a lot too.

AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
kzrider.com/forum/23-for-sale/611992-air-corrector-jets-





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19 Mar 2014 12:00 - 19 Mar 2014 12:02 #625774 by Dr. Gamma
Replied by Dr. Gamma on topic Swingarm pinch bolt

zed1015 wrote: Can't see how you can fit a pinch bolt to the existing frame pivot without welding on an extended piece and using a longer spindle.
Never seen it done and it isn't needed.
Also 14 brace inserts isn't excessive if you are really going to push the bike ( just look at the extent of bracing on the Ac sanctuary race bikes )
I have 25 braced sections on my latest twin shock Moriwaki superbike build ( soon to be posted on projects ;) ) and it does make a very noticeable difference ,even in normal road riding.
Fitting modern stiffer swingers and forks transfer more flex into the frame which needs addressing to make the mods more than just cosmetic.
If you can't get a straight answer from your welder/mechanic then go elsewhere.


Moriwaki Superbike project!!! Can't wait to see it!!!

This is from I think Daytona 1979.



Sorry about quality of picture, I took a photo of one of my old pictures from back in 1979

1972 H2 750 Cafe Racer built in 1974.
1976 KH400 Production Road Racer.
1979 Kz1000 MK. II Old AMA/WERA Superbike.
1986 RG500G 2 stroke terror.
1986 GSXR750RG The one with the clutch that rattles!

Up in the hills near Prescott, Az.
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Last edit: 19 Mar 2014 12:02 by Dr. Gamma. Reason: added something!!

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