tube or tubeless, safety question

Hey guys, quick story for you. I bought my '78 kz650D SR back in the spring. It had original tires on it which were overdue for a change. I had been doing lots of cleaning up with it but was busy with work so I decided to drop them off to have them changed at a shop near me. It was a big shop so they could do it quick unlike the other smaller more personal shops near me which had two month waiting lists for anything. The previous tires on it were tube-type and I ordered the same vintage style tires and dropped everything off. I put them on and rode for a few weeks no problem. I took a week off and the temperature fluctuated a bit.. I went out to ride a week later and the front tire was totally flat, I squeezed it and it came off the rim and the wheel wouldn't take any air. Totally confused I took the wheel off the rim and discovered there was no tube in it! I took it back into the same shop and they said that I had mag wheels and they are tubeless so it was my fault for ordering tube-type tires. They had no answer for the fact that the previous tires were tube-type and that I had ordered the same tires as specified in the manual. They put tubes in the front tire for me (and charged me for the tube). It's working fine now, but my questions are... are these wheels really tubeless and I'm loony? And finally what about the back tire, isn't it dangerous to ride without a tube if it is tube-type?? :S
I've only owned vintage bikes and scooters so I actually have no experience with tubeless tires.

There's a picture of my bike for reference, but I'm sure you all have seen it a hundred times.

1 - Find a different shop before they get you killed. They have no idea what the hell they are talking about and are too stupid to be trusted with your bike and your life!!! (You may want to post the name of the shop here to protect your fellow KZRIDERs.)

2 Get a tube put in the back tire before you get hurt or stranded! The 1978 KZ650-D must use tubes. The stock alloy wheels are not meant for tubeless tires. Notice Kawasaki.com diagrams below.

3 There is no problem using tubes inside tires marked "Tubeless." This is perfectly normal practice for bike requiring tubes.

Ed

:ohmy: Thanks Ed! The shop is Stamford Motorsports in Stamford, CT. I was pretty sure I was correct but I didn't stick to my guns. I only rode a couple of miles on it and I actually cut my ride short to go home because I had visions of blowing out my rear tire while cornering. I will get a tube in there stat!

650ed wrote: [b
3 There is no problem using tubes inside tires marked "Tubeless." This is perfectly normal practice for bike requiring tubes.

Definitely. And in cases where tubeless tires have defects and leak at the rim (been there, had that) you can fix them by installing a tube.

Are the wheels stock? They probably are, but you never know sometimes on an old bike.
Tubeless KZ wheels have the word Tubeless cast into them.

Rear wheel. Does anyone know why the SR does not have rim stoppers? (aka, bead protectors on some models).

Wheels determine the need for tubes as well as tires.

martin_csr wrote: Are the wheels stock? They probably are, but you never know sometimes on an old bike.
Tubeless KZ wheels have the word Tubeless cast into them.

Rear wheel. Does anyone know why the SR does not have rim stoppers? (aka, bead protectors on some models).

Very interesting question. I thought maybe it had something to do with the 16" rear tire, but the CSR also has 16" and it has the rim stoppers. Ed

martin_csr wrote: Are the wheels stock? They probably are, but you never know sometimes on an old bike.
Tubeless KZ wheels have the word Tubeless cast into them.

Rear wheel. Does anyone know why the SR does not have rim stoppers? (aka, bead protectors on some models).

The SR rear wheel in 16" doesn't have the rubber things, whatever they are called, the things that hold the tire to the wheel firmly on 18 and 19 inch wheels and the wheel appears suitable for tubeless tire use as it's a real bear to break the bead off the wheel because it does have a ridge. It may even have "TL" cast in the wheel. It for sure does not say "tubeless" anywhere on the wheel, and if it has the "TL" logo, I've never heard that definitely stood for tubeless. At any rate, the wheel originally used a tube, but back in 1978 I don't believe tubeless tires were even available yet in motorcycle tires.

My wheels are stock and have "TL" on them. Getting the tire off is not that difficult so I'm guessing that does not stand for tubeless. In any event, my new tube for the rear wheel should arrive tomorrow and I'll install it straight away.

1 - Find a different shop before they get you killed. They have no idea what the hell they are talking about and are too stupid to be trusted with your bike and your life!!! (You may want to post the name of the shop here to protect your fellow KZRIDERs.)

Serious advice there, and I recommend you take it.

If you can squeeze a tire off the bead by hand, it is "NOT" a tubeless wheel. Unless your name is Hercules and even Chuck Norris is scared of you. :lol:

Or the tires are Dunlop 404s. :laugh:

Bought this up before in other threads but bears repeating...

My 1981 750E2 has wheels with "tubeless" cast into the spokes. The rear wheel has the extra retaining bead to hold the tire on the rim bead in case of deflation, but the front does not. Basically, the front wheel is same as the type type fronts, only the wheel was drilled for a tubeless valve stem.

Lots of guys on the GSR Suzuki site are using type type wheels that have been converted to tubeless. I've never heard about one concern with doing so, although I personally don't do that myself. Some early Suzuki GS front wheels are similar to the Kawasaki front in that they say "tubeless" but don't have the extra tire retaining humps in the profile.

Bottom line is it's not certain doom if someone runs their tube type wheels sans tube. As long as the tire holds air, the risks are minimal otherwise Kawasaki and Suzuki wouldn't have done the same.