Kawasaki vs Suzuki frames.

swest wrote: I plan on copying the Suzy frame bracing or do this
Steve

Eliminate B, C and D, lower E down... Looks like too much bracing to me, tie the outer backbone tubes to the center (middle, front and rear) reinforce the sheetmetal brace in the front, shim motor mounts, much more than that seems like overkill IMHO

floivanus wrote: Eliminate B, C and D, lower E down... Looks like too much bracing to me, tie the outer backbone tubes to the center (middle, front and rear) reinforce the sheetmetal brace in the front, shim motor mounts, much more than that seems like overkill IMHO

C is one of the most important braces for Suzuki frames. With big KZ frames I think I'd focus on the steering head area first though.

Photo below shows a 1981 750E frame. Lots of good bracing around the steering neck.

Most of the period tests I've seen on the Z1 and 750 triples praised the handling and braking. The Z1's were even praised for their straight line stability at speed so I'm not quite sure where all the legends of their ill handling originated from.

That bracing looks a little over the top, there are a couple of areas that seem overkill. I was looking at some bikes for sale the other day and the guy had a braced KZ1000 frame siting there with just the motor in it. Whoever did the work on that really knew their metal work and welding the way it all blended in, it really looked nice as it had all been painted or powder coated since the work was done. The steering head was braced with plate rather like Nessim's KZ750 picture.

That's what I'm saying, C isn't really anything on a kz, tie the backbone and stearing head together if you're doing any bracing.

I can't tell you how many "tank slappers" I've had in the last 40 years. The dependable one is at 93 MPH. You can feel it starting. I always went to 100 or kept at 90 or under. In the turns it wasn't so dependable. Tire pressure is very important. Back in the day 100 MPH sweepers were to look forward to. Twenties, no helmet, it's a wonder I survived it all. I wouldn't try that now even with all the bracing. :whistle:
Steve

while kz frames do have a bad wrap for ill handling.
my belief is that alot(most)of it is from the spaghetti swingarm deflecting,and causing uncontrolled cyclical rear steer(which people refer to as speed wobble) :woohoo: .
hit a bump mid corner on the throttle and see if it doesn't induce the wobble. :whistle:
i've got a 76 kz900 that anything above 86 mph and the speed wobbles start and you can't accelerate out of them.
i haven't taken the time to find it's issue yet,but will as i work my way down my projects list :evil: !
here is a thread full of kz frame bracing
kzrider.com/forum/5-chassis/294594-frame-bracing?limitstart=0

leon

I think if you had a stock brand new Z1 it wouldn't do that, but many bikes of that era were prone to do some funny things at high speed, a friends Honda CB550 four would do some stuff like that too, different tires cured it. I think the Z1's and KZ's are susceptible to this and so minor wear, lack of lubrication, swing arm bushes, steering head races, different tires etc. can induce these traits down the road and they are quite common as a result . If you read period tests on the bikes, they do not mention a lack of high speed stability and many in fact praise high speed stability and that the bike could cruise at 90 or 100 mph.

The KZ900's had stronger frames, thicker walled tubing was used, than on the Z1's, I don't know about the swing arms, I guess changing one for a stronger aftermarket one would answer that particular question.

The Z1 and KZ 900 swing arms are identical. I have one on my bike. The Z1 arm was destroyed in the fire. Been looking at Suzy arms and Les does a stealth job I might go with. My racing days are over but it would be nice to know I could wring it all the way out if I had to.
Steve

Suckzuki.

One thing for certain is to my personal taste the GS750 and GS1000 leave me pretty cold compared to my burning passion for the Kawasaki KZ and GPz models. I've noticed with my KZ's, that even younger people who have no idea what they are or their significant heritage really get a buzz out of their appearance. My neighbor from over the street came around today wanting to borrow some tools and he was there drooling over my KZ1000 for quite a while, when I opened the garage up, walking round it several times stopping to study it from every angle and pointing out things he liked finishing with the "duck bill" tapping it with a finger and saying "I love the look of that". The bike is at least 5 years older than he is, but I could tell it was still "speaking to him" the way it does to me. It actually gives me quite a kick to see how even 20 year old's seem to be able to appreciate these bikes. With other older things I appreciate, I sometimes see their eyes glaze over because they cannot see the appeal. People will still want to be riding these KZ's long after we are gone from the appearance of things - that makes them real classics in my books.

Happens every day.
Steve

Honestly, same gets done with the GS series folks; this one got bought from me at the gas station on my way home from work. :whistle: and the guy was younger than me, and I'm 28 folks, he just couldn't stop himself.