Why is wrench size different for metric bolts?

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07 Sep 2016 12:10 #741440 by diggerdanh
Gents, I recently replaced a few missing or too-far-gone-rusted bolts on the 79 KZ400 that I'm putting back together.

Just some basic stuff like bracket bolts and odds-n-ends. Rather than pay $11/ea for NOS replacements on Ebay, if I could even find them all, I decided to take a trip (or several trips) to the hardware store. One thing I found odd when putting the new bolts in place, especially for the 8mm and 10mm bolts, is that the wrench size is a size or two larger for the replacements than the originals. For example the lower triple pinch bolts are 10x35 (100 or 125 pitch, cannot remember off the top of my head) but the stock bolts have a 14mm head and the replacements I used were 17mm.

Why the difference? Have the specs changed since 1979? Or Is it just a difference in the specs (like JIS vs. ??)? Or is it a difference in grades - like Grade 5 vs Grade 8?

Just curious. I just figured there was a machinist or other expert on here that could shed some light.

Thanks.

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07 Sep 2016 12:36 #741445 by GPzMOD750
Idk if there is any kind of real standard. I've bought metric thread bolts from hardware stores with SAE heads. No kidding. Then gone back for the same bolts out of the same bin and got ones with different heads some metric some not.

One reason I can think of putting smaller heads on motorcycle bolts is space and weight savings.

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07 Sep 2016 12:48 #741447 by Kidkawie

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07 Sep 2016 14:34 #741460 by 650ed
The problem you ran into is the fact that there are a number of different standards for bolts that use metric threads, and the bolts and other fasteners on the Kawasaki are Japanese Industrial Standard (JIS). The confusion is caused by the fact that JIS fasteners use the same thread sizes as other metric fasteners, but some of the head sizes are different than those of other metric fasteners. I first encountered this issue when I was buying stainless bolts for the passenger footpegs on my KZ650. Those bolts are 10mm 1.25 pitch with a 14mm head. The only 10mm bolts that use a 14mm head are JIS bolts; all other metric standards use larger heads on 10mm bolts that will not fit inside the passenger footpeg mounts because of the shape of the mounts. I eventually got the correct size JIS stainless bolts from a place in Great Britain, but it wasn't an easy thing to find.

Below is a link to a chart that shows the head sizes for different flavor "metric" bolts. If you are looking for a specific size bolt maybe I or someone else on this site can help you find it, but you will find that the JIS bolts may be more expensive than bolts you find at the local hardware store. Ed

www.boltdepot.com/fastener-information/b...-bolt-head-size.aspx

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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07 Sep 2016 18:32 #741477 by Nessism
I've never seen metric threads with SAE heads before. I do know though that if you go to the hardware store the common metric hardware uses 11mm, 13mm, and 15mm hex sizes.

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07 Sep 2016 20:57 #741483 by floivanus
Same thing happens on import cars, honda, toyota etc. even your new domestics do it (15mm head on 12mm bolts on a chevy) that's why as long as the structure of the bolt is fine (no pitting/corrosion on the bolt body) i keep them all, have two five gallon buckets full.

Also hardware store stainless bolts have grade markings on them, so if tou feel like removing the marks and polishing them up, you COULD cut the hex size down as well

my bikes; 80kz1000(project), 77 gl1000, 74 h2 (project)
Past; 78 kz1000, 83 kz550
Andrew

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08 Sep 2016 05:10 #741505 by 650ed
Stainless bolts can be polished to a mirror finish if one has the time and the correct beer inventory. ;) Ed

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1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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08 Sep 2016 06:04 - 08 Sep 2016 06:04 #741513 by diggerdanh
Replied by diggerdanh on topic Why is wrench size different for metric bolts?
kidkawie - great idea! Thanks.

Ed - I bought a bit of stuff that I knew would be difficult to find in hardware stores - like some of the long 6x100 head bolts (I was missing 1 of 2) and some others - from Bolt Depot and I thought I remembered some of the options being JIS spec. Thanks for the info.

I did buy replacement front and rear foot peg bolts but I haven't tried them yet but now I know they will not work. I had not thought about the head size for those. Ugh. Guess I'll be searching for some JIS spec replacements.

Thanks for the knowledge Gents!
Last edit: 08 Sep 2016 06:04 by diggerdanh.

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08 Sep 2016 06:15 #741514 by Kidkawie
Replied by Kidkawie on topic Why is wrench size different for metric bolts?
Whenever I do a restoration the first thing I do is buy extra hardware and send it out with the originals to be replated. Nothing worse than needing a few bolts in the middle of a project.


1975 Z1 900
1994 KX250 Supermoto
2004 KX125
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08 Sep 2016 06:57 #741519 by Nessism
I use a Caswell's zinc plating kit to clean up the original hardware. I'd much rather recycle the high quality original hardware than replace it with aftermarket.
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