Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis

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24 Dec 2022 17:41 #878209 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
The plain red and the blue/white wires are the ones I would like you to test

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26 Dec 2022 09:49 - 26 Dec 2022 09:53 #878252 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
Hi Elfarm, I think you would be very unlucky to have two faulty control units (not impossible) there are three separate switches within the turn signal switch that operate simultaneously. If you complete all of the below test steps and record your results I should be able to tell you where the fault is. I know you have already done some of these steps but please do again and record the actual "voltages"

 
Last edit: 26 Dec 2022 09:53 by Wookie58.

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26 Dec 2022 21:10 #878266 by Elfarm98648
Replied by Elfarm98648 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
Good evening, sorry for my MIA, I hope everyone had a merry Christmas or holidays or whatever you choose to celebrate. 
 
wookie, i will begin by saying my beginning battery voltage was 12.08 Volts. It is a lead acid battery and has been in the extreme cold the last few days as I was out of town so midway through the second test(12/26) it was put on a charger.
I preformed the first test that you posted on 12/24 and got these voltages:

Using a voltmeter with ign on, turn signal switch in the rest position and combination switch in the "A" position red probe to battery positive and black probe to red wire at module 11.8 VOLTS
black probe to battery negative and red lead to red wire from module
NO VOLTAGE
red probe to battery positive black probe to blue/white at module
NO VOLTAGE
black probe to battery negative and red lead to blue/white at module
NO VOLTAGE

Preforming your second test got me this:
1. 11.8V
2. 11.8
3. 0V
4. 11.7V
5. 0V
6. No voltage present(failed)
7. 24 voltage jumps, wheel not taped when rotated so it very well could have gone past 2 slightly. 
8. 11.6 V
9. 0V 
10. 11.2V
11. No voltage jump present(Failed)

What I can immediately see is both 6 & 11 test involve the module as a key component. The distance sensor has been cleared by the factory manual test as well as this one so It seems to not be the issue. 

I actually ordered a new module on 12/23 and it is set to arrive tomorrow. This one did cost more and I am hoping that equates to a working unit. This will be the second unit I purchased and my 3rd overall unit. 

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27 Dec 2022 08:00 #878269 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
I would tend to agree with you Elfarm, when testing any control module if all the "inputs" and main "feed and ground" are present (circled in yellow) then a missing "output" can only be a module fault. It certainly appears these modules aren't the most reliable. By testing in this way with a voltmeter on a live circuit at the module you can generally eliminate poor connections or faulty switches, wiring etc as the cause of the problem. This would be the same process for any module regardless of complexity (some engine control units have in excess of 100 pins)

 

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27 Dec 2022 17:20 #878293 by Elfarm98648
Replied by Elfarm98648 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
Thank you for your help wookie, the problem was solved when the third and final module arrived and was installed. This one works! I suppose it could have been my sheer bad luck that I bought one that was junk. Thank you to everyone that helped!
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10 Jan 2023 10:49 #878720 by Len1026
Replied by Len1026 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
Wookie,
I diagnosed my turn signal system to a bad solenoid. Do you know what the small electronic component on the solenoid is? It is underneath the tape on the solenoid.  . It is testing OPEN. No current flows  through it. I have a 1982 750 LTD 4 cylinder. Thanks.

1982 KZ750 LTD

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10 Jan 2023 11:12 #878721 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
I suspect it's a capacitor to dampen the voltage spikes when the magnetic field makes/breaks (a 4 pin relay can spike at 300v when the field collapses) this will reduce the arcing at the relay contacts (same as a points ignition system)
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10 Jan 2023 12:41 #878725 by Len1026
Replied by Len1026 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
I did some research and determined that it is a thermal fuse. I could make out the word Micro and 10A on it. So I ordered a 10A thermal fuse on ebay. I got 4 for about $8. Not sure why a thermal fuse would be on a solenoid. I'll solder it in next week when it arrives and hope for the best. Thanks
 

1982 KZ750 LTD

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10 Jan 2023 13:51 - 10 Jan 2023 13:52 #878728 by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
That's interesting, do you have a picture of the rest of the internals, I can't remember ever seeing this set up (although to be fair I've never un-taped one, once diagnosed as the flasher relay I have just replaced it) is it a combined turn signal and hazard light unit?
Last edit: 10 Jan 2023 13:52 by Wookie58.

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15 Jan 2023 09:40 #878848 by Len1026
Replied by Len1026 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
Sorry I did not take a picture of the internals. I just soldered in a new thermal fuse, taped up the solenoid, installed the solenoid in the bottom part of the switch. I tested it with a jumper wire and the solenoid works! It pulls in a plunger that allows the switch to return to the center (off) position. Then I assembled the rest of the switch. Just test drove it in 32°f weather and the system is now working as intended. I did both right and left turns. Pretty happy! 
I couldn't find the original 96°C thermal fuse so I settled for a 99°C thermal fuse. 
The turn signal switch was sticking when I bought the bike. I suspect that is why the fuse failed.  The module was constantly trying to turn the signals off. Just a theory.

1982 KZ750 LTD
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15 Jan 2023 10:43 #878854 by Wookie58

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15 Jan 2023 12:19 #878857 by Elfarm98648
Replied by Elfarm98648 on topic Auto canceling turn signal diagnosis
That’s 2 auto canceling systems that now work! Thanks everyone!
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